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September 27, 2006

[ CANON EOS 400D enthusiast's kit ]

Price: $2300

Highly recommended

The low-down: The Canon EOS 400D is the third iteration of the company’s entry level DSLR. The changes over the 350D are mainly in the sensor -- increased to 10 megapixels -- and moving the camera information read-out from the top panel to the main LCD screen.

We chose to test the 400D in the “enthusiast kit” form because we feel that the camera is so outstanding that it deserves the excellent Canon 17–85 image stabilised lens even though it costs $800 more than the camera with the standard kit lens.

In this combination the camera is responsive and consistently produces well-exposed, highly detailed, sharply focussed, accurately coloured photographs. As we expect from Canon the high ISO images are practically noise-free. The only disappointment we had was with auto white balance -- the camera does not handle incandescent light well.

The camera has an automatic routine for removing dust from the image sensor filter similar to that used by Olympus. In this case the filter is ultrasonically cleaned when the camera is turned off.

All controls are well laid out and intuitive in use but in the event of bemusement the printed manual is comprehensive and clear.

Like: The responsiveness of this camera makes taking a photo about as instinctive as blinking an eye. The shutter release is nicely damped and the mirror/shutter slap is reasonably restrained even if not as quiet as we would like.

Dislike: There is still no spot metering. The camera body is still too obviously plastic. Buy the black one, at least it looks more substantial than the silver.

Verdict: ef-s 17-85mm front.jpgThe lens issue needs consideration. The body costs $1300 and with the standard 18–55 kit  lens it is $1500. There is a two lens kit with a 75–300 zoom for $1650. The “enthusiast’s kit” with the image stabilised 17–85 is $2300. It’s a choice between two lenses covering 18 to 300mm for $350 or one lens of lesser focal length range for $1000. Hmm. We tried the camera with the kit lenses and didn’t like it. We switched to the better lens and loved it. $2300 buys a great camera but it’s certainly not “entry level”.

 

THERE ARE SAMPLE IMAGES FROM THE CANON EOS 400D IN THE DPEXPERT GALLERY >

Posted by terry at September 27, 2006 08:59 AM

Worth Checking Out

Digital Cameras Sydney

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Comments

Are your prices in Canadian dollars. This is considerably more expensive than I have seen this camera anywhere else...

Posted by: Paul McBride at October 2, 2006 03:38 PM

The prices quoted are Australian. We suffer from two disadvantages here -- feeble dollar [U$0.75] and high prices compared with North America.

Posted by: Terry at October 3, 2006 03:46 AM

"The “enthusiast’s kit” with the image stabilised 17–85 is $2300. It’s a choice between two lenses covering 18 to 300mm for $350 or one lens of lesser focal length range for $1000."

... makes the Sony Alpha with a good quality (maybe really good, second hand) Minolta lens seem like a great combo!

Posted by: Richard at October 3, 2006 04:54 AM

Hello Terry,
Are you going to trade in your Konica for one of these?
Regards
Barry

Posted by: Barry_C at October 3, 2006 10:23 AM

Dear Terry,
I am now in complete agony.Having spent the past 3-4 months looking for a DSLR for my wife
and in seeking out in magazines, reading reviews, including this site beating off vendors who appear to only want to offer " a great deal" and generally trying to nail my choice down to 2 or 3 it appears that with every model I do some homework on another 3 new cameras are released to the market.With a budget of $ 15/1800.00 I need help.
Kind regards,
Dallas

Posted by: Dallas at October 12, 2006 08:02 AM

Dallas:

Some time in the next month there will be a new Pentax -- the K10D. When that is released you could probably narrow your sites to the Nikon D80 [in very short supply], the Canon EOS400D [a good camera but not such a good kit lens] or the Olympus E500.

You shouldn't agonise too much over the choice. No matter what you buy it will not be a dud, except for the Olympus E330. The Sony Alpha is a good camera with an average kit lens.

At least on the basis of specs and descriptions of pre-production models the Pentax K10D is looking like a killer camera, but your wife might be quite well served by the Pentax K100D. It costs a lot less and takes terrific pictures.

See, I'm not much more help than a salesman! I sense that you're worried that you will buy a camera and all your pals will point and say: Er...You bought THAT? Oh dear.

Don't worry. It won't happen.They'll look at your camera and start worrying that they have made a mistake buying Brand X.

Terry L

Posted by: Terry at October 12, 2006 11:23 PM

Hi,
This EOS 400d 17-28 lens $2300 is the camera I really want to buy. I cant decide between it and the the Nikon equivalant. Please decide for me !!. I am so stresed over this. The Canon is my preference mainly because the size, look and reviews read to date. I love the 17-85 lens.
Thankyou,
Henry

Posted by: Henry Mandryk at October 28, 2006 08:28 AM

Henry:

Stress no more! If you like the Canon 400D in enthusiast kit form then buy it. There are other cameras at the price just as good but none that is better. That camera/lens combination is beautiful. It will give you immense pleasure to use and will produce stunning results. You will never have to look sideways at the next chap's Nikon and wonder if you have done the right thing.

But if you choose the Nikon D80 the story is the same. Or the forthcoming Pentax K10D, I suspect.

Bottom line: go for the Canon. It is superb. [Just don't buy the awful cheap kit lens] And it is on sale now whereas the Nikon and Pentax may be hard to get.

Terry L

Posted by: Terry at October 29, 2006 12:09 AM

Dear Terry,
Thanks very much for your comment. Im going for the Canon 400d enthusiast kit. Have you ever read the reviews on fredmiranda.com ?. Many people bag the 17-85 lens. Why do you think this is ?. Again, your comments are much appreciated.
Henry

Posted by: Henry Mandryk at November 2, 2006 08:45 PM

If you had a choice between the canon eos 400 with 17-85 image stabilized lens and the Nikon D80 for the same price, Which would you go for ??

Posted by: Dennis at November 5, 2006 06:00 AM

Dennis:

I haven't yet tested the Nikon D80 so at this stage I can't offer an opinion. I suspect that there won't be much to choose between them.

Terry

Posted by: Terry at November 5, 2006 09:51 PM

Hello Terry,
Could you tell me the difference beetwen Rebel xti and "non rebel" + I see offers for Euro and Japanese models? Being in Melbourne should I refrain from ebay type purchase?
Thank you and regards.

Posted by: Milan at December 24, 2006 10:25 AM

The Rebel XTi is the US version where as the canon Kiss is the japanese version. They are all the same just renamed for different markets.

I personally would recommend the 17-85 lens as i have used this lens and its the best lens to start off learning with as the pictures are sharp and it has a decent focal length

Andrew

Posted by: Andew at May 25, 2007 08:23 AM

Please could someone comment here?

I have a 35mm slr camera Canon EOS 500 kitted with two sigma autofocus lenses
1. sigma UC zoom 28-70mm
2. sigma DL zoom 75 -300mm

I am wanting to purchase a Canon 400D digital SLR. Will these lenses be compatible and do you think it is a good idea to purchase the body only and use my existing lenses?

Posted by: Kerry at October 8, 2007 06:43 AM

Kerry: Your Sigma lenses should be compatible with a 400D. All EOS, both film and digital, cameras should have the same lens mounts and autofocus should work.

However, the sensible thing to do is to take the 2 lenses into a camera shop and try them on the digital body. That way you will know for certain.

TL

Posted by: Terry at October 9, 2007 03:50 AM

Love your sample photos, particularly the sharpness of the detail. I have the 400d twin lens kit and do not seem to be able to get this clarity. Is it me or the lens?
Lex

Posted by: Lex Neville at January 6, 2008 12:20 AM

Lex: The answer to your question is a bit complex.

First, the two lens kit with the 400D consists of two fairly poor quality lenses. It is a matter of cost. You have paid less for your camera with two lenses than the price of one good Canon lens. Logically it is not possible for the company to sell a camera plus two lenses for the same price as one lens on its own and keep the quality consistent.

That's the bad news. The good news is that there is something you can do about it.

Obviously buying one of their better lenses -- I have the EFS 17-85 on my 40D, and even that is not the best -- will improve your results. Canon's very best lenses all have the letter L in their designation. They are VERY expensive. For the money you get optical image stabilisation which increases sharpness.

There are a few things you can do in-camera. First, make sure that the multi-zone auto focus is off and the auto-focus is set to the centre spot. This is the most important thing you can do. In most situations the multi-zone auto focus will focus on the object closest to the camera whether you want it to or not. With AF set to centre spot it will focus where you point it.

Then check the Sharpness setting in the menu. Canons, by default, produce images that are a little soft. There are good reasons for this, but for those of us who don't want to spend too much time on post-camera processing it makes sense to set the Sharpness control up a notch.

Needless to say the steadiness of your hand will affect sharpness. For most situations set the camera mode to P and the ISO to 200-400 -- this will give the best automatic compromise between shutter speed and aperture.

I use a tripod a lot.

Finally, slightly soft images can be sharpened in Photoshop using Unsharp Mask. This is a subtle sharpening function that can add zing to a shot.

Hope this helps. TL

Posted by: Terry at January 6, 2008 10:04 PM

FWIW, have just purchased the 400D with kit lens plus an EF-S 70-300. Like the 70-300 quality so much that I'll add the 17-85 EFS IS lens. Have come back to SLR type photography after years in digital point & shoot wilderness and loving it. Agree that the cameras / lenses pretty similar overall - my only comment for someone starting from scratch is whether telephoto work is soemthign they like - if not so much, then I'd seriosuly consider the D80 with the VR 18-200 . But for me, the extra 100mm with the Canon is worth the hassle of changing lenses ( less of a concern with the sensor cleaning function in the Canon)

Posted by: garry at February 5, 2008 10:25 PM

A quick clarification, if you don't mind. I'm looking at buying this camera body and find one source stating in its blurb that "This is not Rebel version(cheaper) version. This is Original EOS Canon"

I understand that the Rebel XTi & Kiss are the same, but is there another (superior) version to which they refer?

Posted by: Jimbo at February 7, 2008 08:18 AM

Jimbo: There is only one Canon EOS400D body. It goes by different names in different markets. I recall reading a suggestion a long time ago that there is some unique feature about the version sold only in Japan. But for the rest of the world a 400D is a Rebel is a Kiss.

The big difference is in the lens supplied. The cheapest kit form comes with a very basic, cheap lens. The "enthusiast kit" comes with a better lens and costs more.

Have a look at Canon Aust's web site: http://www.canon.com.au/products/visual/cameras/digital_slr.html

You will notice that there is a 450D listed without a price. That is a new model which will be available shortly with a 12mp sensor, compared with the 10mp of the 400D.

TL

Posted by: Terry at February 7, 2008 10:36 PM

Well, I just got my 400D back from warranty "repairs" today... and I am disgusted at Canon Australia.

There were three faults with mine, all clearly stated on the warranty return form - of which Canon elected to repair just one ( they replaced the LCD which had a bright pixel ).

The CCD still has the same dead pixel it shipped with, and the irremoveable piece of crap is still trapped behind the diffuser ( it cannot be cleaned because it fell from somewhere inside the body ).

I will never touch another Canon product again. No quality control, and no desire to fix their faulty junk under warranty.

Good luck to you if you got a good one, because $1400 is a lot to pay for a paperweight.

Posted by: pete at February 13, 2008 08:40 AM

I'm looking to purchase a 400D. I've already got a Canon EF 28-105mm Lens, do you think I should purchase another lens when I get the camera, or just get the body only? Do you think I need the 17-85mm as well? What's the main difference between these two lenses?

Posted by: Chantal at February 13, 2008 11:16 PM

Chantal: Your present lens is a good one but you might find its focal length range limiting at the wide angle end. Remember that you must multiply the focal length by 1.6 for use on a Canon DSLR. So your widest angle will be 44.8mm. So whereas 28mm was a decent wide angle on your film camera it will become a "normal" lens on the 400D.

The 17-85mm is the better of the two Canon kit lenses so it costs a lot more than the 18-55, which is a pretty poor lens and not good enough for the camera.

Incidentally, the 400D is about to be replaced by the 450D. It might be worth waiting a few weeks.

Hope this helps. TL

Posted by: Terry at February 14, 2008 02:03 AM

Hi Terry,
Thanks for explaining this to me. I'll invest in the 17-85mm, and yes, I think I'll wait for the 450D to arrive in April.
Cheers,
Chantal

Posted by: Chantal at February 16, 2008 01:27 AM

Hi Terry,

I recently bought Canon EOS 400D, which came with the 18-55 lens kit, by default. I also bought an 55-200 USM II lens to complement the 18-55 kit lens. The very next day at a school function I realised I needed a single lens covering wide-angle and zoom, something like 18-200, or 28-200. As Canon only has an 28-200, I checked some reviews for the same. As usual, the reviews were mixed, and some experts suggested to opt for the 28-135 with Image Stabiliser. Unfortunately, the 28-200 does not come with Image Stabiliser, or so the Canon dealer says in my town.

I'm confused now. I'd love to go for 28-200, but if the image quality is a real problem, I'd settle for 28-135. Thankfully, the dealer is willing to exchange the 55-200 lens I bought.

Please advise. Thanks.

Sunny

Posted by: Sunny at February 16, 2008 11:18 AM

Sunny: You might find it helpful to look at

http://www.photozone.de/active/survey/querylenstxt.jsp?filter=%221=1%22

This is a database of lenses, build, mechanical and optical quality, compiled from feedback from people who own

and use the lenses.

www.photozone.de also does objective tests of lenses and you can follow the links to lenses for Canon. There you

will find tests of third party lenses such as Sigma, Tokina and Tamron.

I have not yet found an 18-200mm lens that I think is good enough for a camera like the 400D. The Canon 55-200 is

a cheap lens with all that implies. The 28-135 is more realistically priced, and as you observe has IS. I would be

inclined to go for that lens. TL

Posted by: Terry at February 16, 2008 11:05 PM

Hi Terry,

Thanks a lot for your feedback, and the photozone link.

Cheers,
Sunny

Posted by: Sunny at February 17, 2008 06:44 PM

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